zeldafandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:The Imprisoned
I think this page should be categorized as a boss page. He might not be fought in a dungeon like most traditional bosses but the final bosses aren't either and he is one of the forms of the final boss, just fought at separate points throughout the game. He also gets the in game boss tag. Oni Link 21:11, November 26, 2011 (UTC) :He should be a boss :/ I mean you fight him in Lightning Round, and like you said he gets the tag. I don't see why this isn't already listed... Scathee 01:37, November 27, 2011 (UTC) ::Sure. I guess. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 02:47, November 27, 2011 (UTC) Look out for plagiarism, guys! Just a friendly reminder from Zelda Wiki - I've been doing some research to see the differences between our articles and yours, in terms of Skyward Sword material, and found a significant section of this page to be copied word-for-word from Zelda Wiki. It is the section starting with "Interestingly, the seal upon the Imprisoned..." Our page history reveals that our article included this information on December 3, and the information first appeared on this article on December 17. As a reminder, our GNU Free Documentation License is not compatible with your CC-BY-SA license; I'll be changing the paragraph myself. And, not to worry, ZW staff has been reverting and re-writing copy/paste content taken from here as well in the past few weeks. I just want to make sure we're all aware of the plagiarism going on, and are vigilant in combating it. On an unrelated note, the wiki looks excellent, guys! I do often come over here to get a second opinion on a theory or article written over at ZW. However, it saddens me to see that sometimes the opinions I'm trying to amass are the same, word-for-word between wikis - and from both sides. Let's work together on combating plagiarism! Best, Cip Admin, Zelda Wiki p.s. I'm not totally used to wikia editing, excuse my multiple edits :) :Thanks for letting us know. We will have to be more conscious of added content that may have originated on your wiki in the future. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 20:29, January 4, 2012 (UTC) Time Paradox This topic is somewhat addressed in the article, but even so... doesn't the final fight with Demise create a rather large time paradox? I could see if Link had sealed up Demise after the fight, but the Sealing Spike was destroyed after their fight and his dessicated spirit was directly sealed in the Master Sword. This would mean that Demise never sat in the Sealed Grounds and denatured into The Imprisoned, which would mean that Link never had to fight it, Ghirahim never needed to ressurect him and so prompt the events of the entire game (and indeed probably wouldn't have been around owing to his supposed death after the final battle), and the Triforce would thus never have been brought into the physical world, eliminating the need for any of the resulting storylines/games. Does anyone have any ideas about how this could be circumvented without sacrificing canonicity? Setras (talk) 03:27, August 24, 2012 (UTC) :There is no sealing spike in the past, in the ground or when The Imprisoned shows up. Which heavily implies Demise was originally sealed some other way and that the sealing spike was created after Link's battle with him. Oni Link 11:47, August 24, 2012 (UTC) I thought about that, too, but Demise's entire physical being was broken down and sealed up in the Master Sword after the final battle, meaning there was nothing left TO seal away with the Spike. Also, I always chalked up the Sealing Spike's absence to Ghirahim's ritual- he could have destroyed or otherwise altered the Spike so as to weaken the seal, at which point his ritual began and he broke the seal completely. Setras (talk) 13:55, August 24, 2012 (UTC) :The nature of how exactly he is sealed doesn't really matter. What's important is that he is sealed at the end of game and at the beginning. The fact that his body is destroyed doesn't mean much, someone as powerful as Demise could easily construct a new body and The Imprisoned doesn't look much like his original body to begin with. Oni Link 16:05, August 24, 2012 (UTC) I think the manner of sealing would matter somewhat, because being sealed in the Master Sword would be quite different from being sealed underground. The Master Sword also repels and burns evil and, according to Fi, causes Demise's spirit to actually decay while it is inside, which would slowly weaken him; in contrast, the earthen seal in the Sealed Grounds seems to allow him to GAIN power, with him becoming stronger after each sealing. Your idea that he could construct a new body isn't inherently unreasonable, but it does open a variety of canon-questionable points (such as how or why he could create the new body, how his conciousness could escape the sword, how that clone came to be sealed away, etc.), so it's not an entirely effective solution. (Sorry if I'm coming across as snarky here- I tend to get neurotic about storylines in games!) Setras (talk) 16:16, August 24, 2012 (UTC) :I still don't see where a paradox will come into play. He is and was sealed. We really don't live in a world where sealing giant demons are a common thing so we can't know exactly how such sealings would work. Perhaps his consciousness was moved from the Master Sword into the Sealing Spike because he was strong enough to corrupt the weapon. Just because we don't know exactly how the game world works doesn't make it a plot hole or paradox. The important thing is that he was sealed in the past and remains sealed in the future until he is killed. Oni Link 16:26, August 24, 2012 (UTC) The paradox lies in the fact that, in the original timeline, Hylia sealed Demise in the earth and he sat there for millenia, well before the Master Sword was created, and Link fought him in an altered form on three separate occasions before he was destroyed by the Triforce. When Link goes back in time and seals Demise in the Master Sword, this creates an alternate timeline where Demise's spirit was removed from the earthen seal (and thus no longer occupied that space) and moved into the Master Sword, where it sat for millenia. If these two timelines were to overlap (as the game indicates), it would result in a new timeline during which two different, alternate Demises exist at the exact same time, sealed in two different prisons under entirely different circumstances. This cannot happen because the timelines are mutually exclusive- if Demise is inside the earthen seal, he cannot exist in the Master Sword (as this would mean his original seal was never broken); if he is inside the Master Sword, then he could not exist in the earth seal, and thus Link never could have fought him as The Imprisoned (as his original seal was broken and he was moved to a new prison). The only way to circumvent this would be if The Imprisoned had emerged from the Master Sword, which obviously never occured. Thus, the paradox still stands.Setras (talk) 16:52, August 24, 2012 (UTC) :You didn't read my comment at all did you? I doesn't matter how he was sealed what's important is that he was sealed. He could easily have been moved. Hell the sealing spike could be the Master Sword itself since we don't actually see it appear in the Temple of Time until the very end of the game. The game makes it clear with Impa's dialogue and bracelet that the entire thing takes place a closed loop. Just because we don't know what happens in the intervening millennia doesn't mean its a plot hole. I'm sure people could come up with dozens of reasons why there sealing spike is used instead of the Master Sword. I've already presented two. Oni Link 17:12, August 24, 2012 (UTC) I can tell you're getting annoyed, so I'll just say this: yes, I did read your comment, which is why I tried to explain why the method of sealing IS relevant, and why the game existing in a closed loop does create a problem. Also, the whole point of this topic was to solve the paradox without sacrifing canonicity. Your explanations do solve the problem, but require a generous use of retcons and non-canonical details to do so. Again, I'm not trying to be petty here, and if I'm being offensive, then I heartily apologize for it. Setras (talk) 17:29, August 24, 2012 (UTC) :I'm not the type to get annoyed so easily. As far as I see it though there is no proof of a paradox (and it seems that Nintendo went to the effort of making it appear like there isn't be not consciously removing the sealing spike from the imprisoned model) but if you still feel the need to add something to the page you'll have to wait for more opinions than just mine. Oni Link 17:46, August 24, 2012 (UTC) ::It is a paradox only insofar as there is no given explanation. It is true that there is a large amount of discontinuity and bizarre reasoning involved in Demise being somehow moved to a different place, but what's important is that it is possible and therefore not a definitive paradox...per se. More importantly, though, this honestly wouldn't be the first time Zelda has made a mess out of time travel. The Ocarina of Time Song of Storms thing is a famous example, but there are other things too, like how a shard of the Mirror of Twilight could possibly make its way to the past when the Master Sword is required to activate the time door, or how anything that happened in Oracle of Ages made sense. The honest truth of the matter is that Nintendo doesn't really care that much about continuity when time travel is involved. Does this warrant a mention on the page? Maybe; I don't really have an opinion on it. What I do know is that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, however. ''Xykeb Yvolix '' 18:39, August 24, 2012 (UTC) Nintendo doesn't know anything about how time travel really works, and neither does anybody else. /thread (P.S. I do know.) --Auron'Kaizer ' 21:44, August 24, 2012 (UTC) I wish there were more battles with this guy, as well as more SA-X encounters in Metroid fusion, I love those twoPikmin theories (talk) 15:36, June 8, 2016 (UTC)